When the moveable object meets the resistable force, something has to give. That could be Manchester United ’s thought, but also Tottenham’s. A meeting of early-season underachievers may be a reminder of a dreadful Europa League final – not just in the football, but in the reality it was contested by two teams who finished 15th and 17th in their domestic division – and of opportunities missed, of the ones who got away.

United hoped Mateus Fernandes would be in their midfield now; instead Spurs took them out of the equation to sign the Portuguese from West Ham by bidding £85m.

But rewind to February and Thomas Frank ’s penultimate game was a 2-0 defeat at Old Trafford . It was part of Michael Carrick ’s superb start and, when the Dane was sacked four days later, there was no former Spurs player ready to take over on an interim basis; United had got there first with Carrick, who spent spells in each of their midfields, when Ruben Amorim left. Spurs stumbled via Igor Tudor to Roberto de Zerbi instead.

If their winless beginning to the Premier League campaign has been more hubristic, United’s initial difficulties could be as worrying. They have five points from a fixture list that could have promised at least 10; only September’s Manchester derby had appeared difficult in their first block of games. The next group feels far tougher.

Tottenham prop up the Premier League but their expenditure and talent positions them to do far better, which could render them dangerous opponents. United have a trio of daunting away trips thereafter, in Atletico Madrid , Leeds and Como. Their other Champions League clash before the November international break is against Roma, currently the Serie A pacesetters. Their Premier League opponents include Chelsea at Stamford Bridge and Aston Villa , whose season may have been kickstarted by Spurs, at Old Trafford.

The risk for Carrick is that it gets worse before it gets better; that the upward trajectory that followed his return in January is followed by a downward turn he is unable to arrest. Carrick has rejected some of the pessimistic interpretations. There are things that could lend themselves to optimism.

One lies in some of the statistics. United have had the most shots in the division so far, even if that could be explained in part by facing promoted Hull and Ipswich, 10-man Manchester City and winless Fulham. An average of 22.6 a game is partly explained by the fact they have had by far the most efforts from long range. It nevertheless should have produced more than eight goals. A more clinical touch could alter results and perceptions.

United also rank fourth for possession and second for pass completion. They have allowed in the second fewest shots and one of those, Erling Haaland ’s winner in the derby, prompted an apology from Pro Ref. Understat’s expected points model has United in sixth, rather better than the 12th position they actually occupy. Look at the numbers and they profile as a leading team, even if they do not necessarily pass the eye test as one.